Productivity is about getting the right things done.
New York Times bestselling author, Michael Hyatt, has created a total productivity system that's much more than endless box checking.
I recently interviewed Hyatt for the LEADx Leadership Show, where we discussed his revolutionary productivity system that has helped more than 25,000 professionals achieve more by doing less. The interview below has been lightly edited for space and clarity.
Kevin Kruse: Michael, officially, welcome to the show.
Michael Hyatt: Thanks, Kevin. What a joy to be on.
KK: So I've written, and I've got a passion around leadership, but also around productivity. People seem to think that's weird. I get asked all the time, “Wait a minute, I thought you were the leadership guy,” or, “What? You wrote a leadership book? I thought you were the productivity guy.” But you're like me. You're like both of those things. Do you get that same question?
MH: I do. We're like twins. I do leadership, goal achievement, and productivity. And I think leadership is the big umbrella. If you're going to be a leader, you've got to be able to achieve your goals, and you've got to be able to execute on what you're planning to do. And so I think they go hand in glove. I think they fit perfectly.
KK: We're going to talk about your new book, but you've got different content areas and different ways to learn apart from books. Tell us about what else you've got.
MH: Well I spent the bulk of my career in the book publishing industry. And in 2011, I was the chairman and the CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishers, the seventh largest publisher in the US. We sold the company to Harper Collins, and so I made my exit. I thought, it's now or never to start my own business and be an author and a speaker. So I did that in 2011, the first book I published, was with Thomas Nelson. It was called Platform: How to Get Noticed in a Noisy World. That led to my membership site, Platform University, where I help people build an online platform because I think that's an increasingly important aspect of leadership.
Then I came out with the book called Living Forward. And that book was about how to create a life plan because I think that when you're intentional about your life, things go a lot better. Then my book that came out last January was called Your Best Year Ever, and it's all about goal achievement. And I've had, literally, like 40,000 people go through the online course. It's been a major conference every year. And the book came out last January. It was number one on the Wall Street Journal bestseller list.
And then my new book, Free To Focus is all about productivity.
KK: Now, you've got a media empire though. If you like the book or you're not a reader, you can also do online training you can go to live events. You're offering it in different formats, right?
MH: I do because I find that people are at different places in their life in terms of where they want to access this stuff. Some people, they just want to read the book. Some people want to go to a conference. Some people want to take an online course. In addition to that, I have a big coaching program, which is probably the guts of what I do, called Business Accelerator. And then I have a book club too.
KK: Brand new, right? This is hot off the press, as they say.
MH: Yeah, it's hot off the press. We have 5000 members. We curate, we pick the books every month. By the way, I'd love to see your new book and consider that. But then we guide people through the experience. We have an online community, our own app for that. And it's a pretty cool experience for people that want to grow in their personal development.
KK: What do you make of the modern times of publishing? And if there's an executive or a consultant out there who's thinking, I should write a book to help get my career to the next level, because the root word of authority is author, where should they start, traditional, indie, somewhere in between?
MH: Here's the problem with self-publishing – and if you've done it, you know it's a lot of work – it's a huge amount of work. You suddenly have to take responsibility for all the things that the publishing company would typically do, including all the ugly stuff. All the backend stuff that people never think about. Everything from getting your book typeset and designed, to getting it up on Amazon and all the other sites where they sell books.
So here's what I recommend today, I recommend starting with traditional publishing because the thing I love, if you get the right publisher, they're going to do all the ugly stuff for you, and you can stay focused in the area where you make your highest and best contribution. And that's going to be a theme in Free To Focus that we'll be talking about in a moment. So it allows you to do what you do best. And let the other stuff be done by somebody that does this all day long, every day.
If you can't get a traditional publishing deal, then I would look at hybrid publishing. It's not cheap, you're going to have to pay to play, so to speak. But again, you're outsourcing all of it so somebody that's going to be doing all that ugly stuff.
And then finally self-publishing. If you can't chin the bar and do that hybrid publishing thing, do self-publish. But absolutely, get yourself published.
Nothing will move your career along faster than a published book. Nothing gives you more authority than a published book, not even a Ph.D., in our culture.
KK: I agree. Go and get that book done. Now, another thing I noticed, Michael, you've really blown up on social media. And it wasn't always that way. You started dabbling a while ago, and then I could see you really doing it. So tell us a little bit about this journey. You must find social media marketing valuable. Give us some insights on the platforms and the tips. And did you find that, oh, this is fun and it's easy? Or do you have to push yourself to do it?
MH: Well, actually, I've been at it longer than you might think. So I started blogging in 2004. In fact, my first blog was called Working Smart, where I shared productivity hacks. I got into podcasting about seven years ago, when it was still challenging and difficult.
I got into Twitter, I think it was in 2006. I got into Facebook shortly thereafter. Instagram is probably the newest platform for me. I don't really dabble in LinkedIn at all.
Instagram is where I'm focusing most of my attention today because I find more engagement there. So I'm trying to do Insta stories every day, I'm doing Instagram posts every day, I've got a social media manager that helps me.
So what I want to do is, I want to use all of that to ultimately build my email list because I think the list is so important. That's my most important digital asset.
I have over a million names on my email list today. But in terms of strategy, last year for example on Facebook, we spent over a million dollars on Facebook ads. But we didn't spend that trying to sell a product. This is an important consideration.
We spent that money offering something that was irresistible for free, something that got people to opt into the email list where we could then nurture them, and then sell them something after a period where we could build trust. So that's the strategy that's really worked for us. We know down to the penny what it costs us to generate a lead, and what it costs us to generate a sale. So we monitor that. In fact, we use an outside agency that monitors all that for us.
KK: That's great. Well, let me turn and talk about the real focus here. New book again, Free To Focus: A Total Productivity System to Achieve More by Doing Less. And I have a weird quirk, Michael, where I'm obsessed with the first of sentences of books. You can't see, they're off cam, but whether it's novels, nonfiction, I think, this is the chance for the author to grab someone. In book stores, I'm horrible. I just open up to the first page, I'm reading first sentences. I'm curious about it. And so, yours, it's a good one. The first sentence of your book is, “I think I'm having a heart attack.” Take us back. What was going on? So you weren't always a master of productively and calmness. At one point, you were thinking, or said, “I think I'm having a heart attack.”
MH: Okay, I've got to tell you something as an author, this is interesting that you noticed that because I read a book years ago by Dean Koontz, the famous novelist, it was called, How To Write Best Selling Fiction. Here's what he said, “If you want to write bestselling fiction, not just genre fiction, but stuff that really gets on the bestseller list, he said, “You've gotta take the protagonist and get him in deep trouble on the first page, and then it's got to get worse before it gets better.” So that's an example of it.
So years ago, this was probably 20 years ago now. I ended up in the emergency room three times in a row, over the course of about, probably, six weeks. And I thought I was having a heart attack. And so finally … every time the doctors would say, “You're not having a heart attack, Mr. Hyatt. You're fine.” And after a while I'm thinking, is this in my head, is this reality? So I went to a very well-known cardiologist here in Nashville, Tennessee, where I live. And I said, “I really just want you to check me out. I can't sleep at night, I'm fretting over this, and I've just got to put this to bed.”
So he ran me through the nuclear stress test and all that kind of stuff. And he said, “Okay, look, here's the deal. Your heart's fine. You don't not have a heart issue.” He said, “What you do have is you have an issue with indigestion, which is sort of masking or creating the symptoms of a heart attack. And you've got acid reflux.” So he said, “I'm going to give you something for that.” But he said, “Here's the real issue,” he said, “You've got a stress issue in your life that you're not coping with” and he said, “If you don't solve that problem,” he said, “You might end in here for real, and you might end up in hospital at a point where I can't help you because you might have a heart attack from this, but it's not because of your heart, it's because of the stress.”
That was a huge wake-up call. I said, “Something's got to change in terms of the way I'm living and particularly in terms of the way I'm working.” Because it was backing up into my health, it was backing up into my personal life.
KK: Now, before the doctor came out and actually said, “Hey, you've got a stress issue.” Did you know it? If someone said, “Hey, how are you feeling today?” Would you say, “I'm running a giant publishing company, I'm stressed out.” Would you have acknowledged it? Or you wouldn't have really known it?
MH: Well, I think if I have a superpower, it's stamina. And so I have the ability … and this isn't a good thing necessarily, but I have the ability to stuff my feelings in the pursuit of a goal and just go, I'll deal with this later. I've got to persevere, and I've just got to keep going. And unfortunately, I had done what a lot of people do, which is convinced myself that the current situation, whatever it might be, was temporary. So it's sort of like when I get acclimated to this new job, then I'll make time for myself and my family. Once I get through this new product launch, then I'll make time for myself and my family. Once we merge this new company we just bought into my company, then I'll take time to relax. And so it was like one series of things that I'd convinced myself were temporary, but they … those kinds of things have a way of becoming permanent. And that's what had happened to me.
KK: So I'm going to … I wasn't planning on going in this direction, I want to kind of walk through your book, but you touched on something about this stamina. And it's not just an ability to work the 100 hours a week or something, but it's sort of … we trick ourselves like, “Well, it's just this week” or once this project's done, once we hit our numbers at the end of the quarter. And in your book, you share that this idea of diminishing returns. You're productive to a certain level at 40 hours. What about 50? What about 60? What about 100? So share with our listeners, some of the thinking and research in that area. How many hours are too many hours?
MH: Yeah, well, as it turns out. All the research points to the fact that after about 55 hours, in fact, the researchers call it the “law of 55”. After about 55 hours there are diminishing returns on our productively. So we actually go in reverse and become less productive. So I personally, I put the cap at 40 hours. So that constraint actually drives productively because the way I used to work, is I used to think, well, if I don't get my to-do list done by mid-afternoon, no problem. I'll go home and eat, crack open my laptop, and work into the evening, or I could drag it into the weekend. I'll finish up this weekend.
But now I've got a hard, fast stop at 6 p.m. I have … I don't work on the weekends. I don't … and this is important, I don't think about work. I don't talk about work. I don't read books about work. I do something other than work, which we can get into. So what that forces me to have every day, kind of like that Friday before you go on vacation when you're so unbelievably productive because you've got a hard, fast stop before you fly out to your vacation destination.
So I just said, “Hey, I think I could use this every day.” So in the afternoon, when I'm tempted to go check Facebook or goof off, I say no because this is going to stop … in fact, I have automatic … home automation in my home, so that my office that's in my home, the lights go off at 6 p.m. and I'm standing in the dark if I'm working past that.
KK: Love that. Love that. You could lock yourself out of your own office with this automation technique. So the book again, Free To Focus, a total productively system to achieve more by doing less. And It's a step-by-step plan. It's a system. At the highest level, though, you say there are three areas. Stop, cut and act. So tell us about the “stop” part. How do we begin to get more productive by doing less? What's the stop part?
MH: Well, first of all, that whole “stop” section is really counter-intuitive, isn't it? You think, if I'm going to read a productivity book, man, I want to get into the game, I want to create momentum, I want to act, I want to do something. I want to go faster on this hamster wheel. But that's the problem; we're on a hamster wheel. So my premise in the book is, we've got to stop. We've got to take a step off the hamster wheel, and we've got to ask, why am I on this thing to begin with? And where is it going? I think for me, as a productivity geek … and I've been a productivity geek since I was in college.
For me, it so often became an end in itself. You know, I want to install this app, or I want to use these hacks or these strategies, why? So I can be more productive. Why? So I can be more productive. So maybe I had a 12 hour day and I'll reduce it to 8 hours, but then I, right away, fill it back up with work. So I'm more efficient, I'm getting more done, but my life … I don't have a life.
And so I think it's important to stop and ask. And this is the first chapter called Formulate. What's our vision for productivity? If in fact, my premise is true, that productively is a means to an end, what's the end game? Where are we going with this? And for me, I think the end game is freedom. This really happens to business owners, people who start a business because they want to be free of the man, or be free of the corporate environment. Then they find out two years into it that their dream has become a nightmare because now they're working for the most oppressive, unreasonable, demanding boss they've ever had, which is themselves.
MH: They have no freedom. They used to have freedom back when they had a job, but now that's gone. And Kevin, the thing I'm looking for is for specific freedom. So let me just … I touch on these on the book, but just quickly. First of all, the freedom to focus. The ability to focus in our distraction economy is a superpower. It gives you the edge on your competitors, will advance your career, will advance the growth of your business. Freedom to focus. The freedom to be fully present. One of the sad things about these devices that we carry around with us all the time is, it allows us to be present where we physically aren't.
So you go to a little league game and you see all these dads and moms that are on their devices, not present when their kids are playing a baseball game. Or they're out to dinner on a date, and they're checking email from work, or checking text messages from work, or also, in the business environment … I've been in meetings dozens of times where people are not present to what's happening at the meeting. They're checking their social media, they're checking something else. And the meetings take twice as long as they should because nobody's really there.
Then the third freedom, the freedom to be spontaneous, to not have so much of our lives planned that we can't stop to have coffee with a friend, or for me, be with my grandkids when they come over. And then finally the freedom to do nothing. And I learned this when I was in Italy. They have a wonderful saying there called, the dolce far niente, which means the sweetness of doing nothing. So when we're the most relaxed is when we're going to get those business breakthroughs, when we're going to be at the most creative. So I'm after those four freedoms, that's the end, and productivity is the means. Does that make sense?
KK: Makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. I want to ask … about that, what resonates most with me is the smartphone addition, smartphone distraction, et cetera, we were talking a little bit about my next book and there's a whole chapter about put … shut off your smartphone. And I don't know if you realize this, you probably realize this, one of your most liked Instagram posts from the last, probably, six months or so, was one you did recently. And the picture is you showing your new home screen on your phone. Did you know that that was one of your popular posts?
MH: I did.
KK: So I find that very interesting, what was on the post. But also that it's resonating with so many people. Tell us about that post and what you were writing about, what you were sharing there.
MH: I write about this stuff, right? I'm an “expert” on productivity and yet I found that this very expensive, very cool iPhone, the iPhone XS Max, which has an amazing camera, and I spent like $1200 for. Really when it came down to it, it was a very sophisticated distraction machine that helped multi-billion dollar companies keep me unfocused from my work so that they could harness my attention, package it, and resell it to the highest bidder. So I said, I'm getting off this train. This is crazy that's got to stop.
So I took my phone, I deleted all the apps that I wasn't using. You know how apps are? They proliferate like rabbits. And so I deleted all the apps that I wasn't using. But the important thing, Kevin, was I deleted my email. I deleted … and the cool thing now is, in iOS, you can actually delete the Mail app, which you couldn't always do. I deleted email, I deleted Slack, which we use for internal communication, and I deleted all my social media apps, with the exception of Instagram. Now, I use Screentime to manage Instagram. So I was telling it I want 30 minutes a day on Instagram, no more. But when you reach the time limit, iOS pops up an alert and says, “Do you want to go for another 15 minutes, extend your limit by 15 minutes? Or do you just want to blow it off for the rest of the day?”
So I found myself cheating on myself. So I finally gave my phone to my wife and I said, “I want you to enter a passcode and not tell me.” So that when the 30 minutes is up, the 30 minutes is really up. And what I noticed about that was … first of all, I turned my smartphone into a dumb phone. And I still carry it with me because I love the camera, people can call me, my family can text message me, and I have two cell phone numbers so my family has the one, and the executives in my company, have the one that actually comes to me.
What I found was, I stopped compulsively checking my phone. It took about three days because I would pick up my phone I'd go like, oh, oh yeah, there's nothing I can do. So-
KK: Did it stress you a little, those three days? Were you a little …
MH: It kind of humored me because I felt like, dang, I've been sucked into this again. But I just realized how many times a day I was checking my phone. Every time I would get bored, or a little bit frustrated, I wasn't getting the creative breakthrough, I was stuck on a problem, I'd check my phone. And it was at odds with my focus. Now, I never check it. In fact, I would say this, I use it for my Instagram stories, and I'll check a few messages, but then I'm kind of done with it. In fact, I was out to dinner with friends a few nights ago, and I didn't even take my phone into the restaurant. That was something I would've never left in the car. But I left my phone in the car because why do I need it?
KK: Right. Right. I think the … as writers sort of have an ear for phrases and words, and I love this. Turning your smartphone into a dumb phone. What I'm sure many of our listeners are thinking right now is, well, that's easy for him to do, he's Michael Hyatt. He's got an assistant, or he's got a staff, of course, he doesn't need to be on slack because he's not being told to do anything. I can't do it because of all these limiting beliefs. How would you address that? People who say, well, that's fine, he's a rich, top-of-the-food-chain CEO. The rest of us could never turn our smartphone into a dumb phone. What do you say?
MH: Well, first of all, it takes progress. You can't do this all at once. But there are some very simple strategies for taking control back of your life. So for example, I like to turn all synchronous devices, or synchronous communication, into asynchronous communication. So those are two big words, let me expand on it. So synchronous communication would be like a text message. Somebody pings you, you get the alert, and the expectation is that you're going to respond in real time. That sucks because I may be in the middle of writing an important chapter in a new book or delivering something on stage, and I don't want synchronous communication. I want asynchronous communication. This is more like email, where the expectation is that I'm going to respond at some point later. It's not usually going to be immediate. So I'm going to turn all those synchronous devices into asynchronous devices.
KK: I love that. Very specific things we can do to start to take control. Now Michael, again, we were going through the big steps of stop, cut and act. We were talking about stop. Tell us about, what do we cut? What are we supposed to cut to become more productive?
MH: Yeah, so I have to expand on one concept in that first section called The Freedom Compass because this is what makes “cut” make sense. The Freedom Compass is like a two-by-two matrix. And on the matrix there are two axes, there's passion and proficiency. So there are those things, all your tasks are not created equal. There are those things that you love to do, you enjoy, they give you deep satisfaction, and there are those things that you're proficient at. Things you're really good at. And not just good in your subjective opinion, but the external world, your boss, your clients, somebody's saying, “You know what? You're so good at that, I'm willing to pay you to do it.”
So that is … and if you take this two-by-two matrix and rotate it 45 degrees, and then put a circle around it. I picture it as a compass. So that true north, where your passion and your proficiency intercept, I call your desire zone. That's where you experience the most freedom, the most job satisfaction. That's where you have a chance of getting in flow. Where you're really making progress and moving the needle in your work and in your life.
The opposite end of that, due south, is what I call your drudgery zone. These are the things that you don't have passion for, you don't enjoy, and worse, you're not any good at them. You're just … it's a grind to get through these things. And so when you look at those things – and there are two other zones that I talk about in the book, the disinterested zone, and the distraction zone, – but with that in mind, when you come to the cut section, the secret to freedom, and the secret to actually achieving more by doing less, is to work as much as you can in your desire zone. And again, it's a process.
Work as much as you can in your desire zone, where your passion and your proficiency come together, and the least amount of time in those other three zones, starting with your drudgery zone. So for me, when I became a solopreneur, and I didn't have all this infrastructure of a big corporation, it was just me and me. And so in that environment, I hated managing my email inbox, I wasn't very good at it. Booking calendar appointments, I would double book myself, I just wasn't good at this. Booking travel, I'd miss a lot of details, get out on the road and go, oh my gosh, I forgot to book a hotel room, whatever.
And even simple things, Kevin, like trying to find the FedEx box. I hadn't done that for years and I had to figure that stuff out. So it was not the best and highest use of me. Those things were in my drudgery zone. So what I teach in the middle third of the book is a strategy of eliminate, automate, or delegate. And these come in a very specific order. So you don't want to delegate what you could automate, and you don't want to automate things that should be done in the first place. You need to eliminate those.
So in the eliminate chapter, I talk about how could we eliminate … let's just start with the drudgery zone for me, how could I get rid of that stuff like email management, or calendar management, or booking my own travel? This was tough because as a solopreneur, I thought, wow, how am I going to get rid of this stuff? The first place to stop … start, is to ask yourself the question, are there things here that don't need to be done at all? Is there anything that I'm doing that might keep me busy, but might just be fake work? Things that are keeping me busy, that are keeping me from the more important stuff that's going to move my business or my career forward?
And so I say in that chapter, you've got to exercise your “no” muscle, and get very good at saying no. I don't know how it is for you, but for me, that's hard because I would consider myself a recovering people pleaser.
MH: I like to say yes. I don't like to disappoint people. Not only do I have the fear of missing out, FOMO. I have FODO, which is the fear of disappointing others. I don't want to disappoint people. So I give some very practical strategies for how to say no. And how to create your own not-to-do list. So a lot of emphasis on to-do lists, everybody knows what that is, but what is the not-to-do list. The things that I'm never going to do because they don't help my business. They don't help my personal life. So you got to start there with elimination.
KK: Yeah so much great stuff here. And even for the listeners, there's so much value in the book that even just the diagram Michael talked about. I thought it was brilliant. You take the traditional geeky consultant two-by-two matrix, but spin it a little bit and round it off and this is your compass. And it really does change visually what this thing means and how to apply it to your own life and the things that you can start to cut. And we only have a few minutes left, but the third part, of course, is act. You say we need to consolidate, designate, and activate. Tell me more about that.
MH: Okay. So activate is one we already talked about, is managing distractions. I consider this my defense plan. So you've got to start with a good offensive plan, and so those first two chapters in that section deal with that. And I don't have a lot of time to go into it, but the consolidate part of that is all about creating your ideal week. In other words, I'm going, to begin with a game plan, and if I can control 100% of my time and resources, which by the way rarely happens, but if I could, what would my week, my ideal week, look like? And I talked about the concept of mega-batching in this chapter. Not just batching, but mega-batching. So that for example, I try to batch all of my internal meetings on Monday, all my external meetings on Friday and that leaves me Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday to the kind of work that's the really focused work that advances my business.
That next chapter on designate is where I talk about having a game plan for the quarter, having a game plan for the week, and having a game plan for each day. And specifically, I call it the three-by-three strategy. So I want three goals for the quarter, I want three priorities for the week, there are probably a gazillion things I could do for this week, but what are the three most important, that if I got to the end of the week and accomplished those, I would feel good about how my time was invested, and I would feel good about the progress I was making towards those goals for the quarters?
A big tip is to come up with your daily big three. What are my three tasks for today that would really move the needle because the Pareto Principle says that 20% of the effort creates 80% of the results? So the average person enters the day with like 18 to 20 to-do items, and they're already defeated before they start. They feel overwhelmed because there's no way, no chance, that I'm going to get all that stuff done. And the truth is, you don't have to get it all done. But even if they accomplish half of that, they still feel defeated. So I say, forget all that. Look at those 18, find the three that are the biggest. Isolate or segregate those. Designate them as your daily big three, and feel awesome if you get those three done. And if you get some of the other stuff done, it's all gravy.
So I've got a product called the Full Focus Planner, which is an analog planner. I'm totally a digital guy, but I found I was so distracted in the digital environment that, if I could pull myself out of that and keep focused on those daily big three, that makes all the difference in the world. We've got over 100,000 users of that product, and the reports that we have from people on that one tip, the daily big three, has been amazing.
KK: I love it. A lot of gold in all of that. I'm going to end with a personal question. We might start a fight, we might agree to disagree here. So I've been preaching, from a few years back now, get rid of your to-do list. If you want to do it, schedule it and then live life from your calendar. A lot of people think that's crazy. You keeping a to-do list these days?
MH: Absolutely. But I use a hybrid system. In my company, we use Asana. So I maintain all those other things. That's where I do the brain dump, when an item comes up, I don't put it on my daily list. So I do that, and I transfer from that list, every evening in preparation for the next day, part of my workday shutdown ritual, I will transfer the three most important tasks for tomorrow. Things that occur during the day, I'll write them down in my planner. But the at the end of the day, my workday shutdown ritual, I'll transfer those back to Asana so I'm keeping this cue of tasks that I could do.
Now, some people love to schedule their to-dos or use that in the place of to-dos. My attitude is basically, you've got to design a productivity system that works for you. Yours isn't going to look exactly like mine. Mine's not going to look exactly like yours. We can both be enormously productive. And this is one of the things, I think, that the Free To Focus program does because it focuses mostly on principals, it gives you the ability to customize it for how you work best. So you can customize it till your heart's content.
KK: Love it. Love that answer. And to be clear, And I'm not anti-list. People think I'm anti-list. I believe in grocery lists, I believe in project lists, I know what my team needs to be accountable for, but when the day comes, I'm looking at my day calendar and living from the calendar rather than the list.
MH: That's great.
KK: Very similar. Excellent. Michael, I'm excited. We think a lot alike about both leadership and productivity. Again, Free To Focus: Total Productivity System To Achieve More By Doing Less.
MH: And I’d like to tell the listeners that when you buy it, you can submit your receipt number, and that unlocks $500 worth of free bonuses related to the book. Things like the Audible edition of the book. You get the Kindle edition of my last book, Your Best Year Ever. You get a four-part video series that I did with my executive assistant on basically, how delegation works and what it looks like, both from my perspective as a delegator and from my assistant's perspective as being the delegate. So we've had people tell us that that's one of the most important series we've ever done. And again, all that's free. All you have to do is buy a copy of the book at freetofocusbook.com.
KK: Michael, thank you so much for coming on the show. Congratulations on the book.
MH: Thank you, Kevin. Great to be on the show.